Owners Manual Conflicting Information

chieffan

chieffan

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I have a copy of the owners manual for the Satoh Beaver tractor. One place in the servicing section it says the engine oil is also the hydraulic system oil with no mention of what oil to use. In a chart in the same manual is shows to use a multi grade 10W oil. Then later in the servicing it states the gear case fluid is also the hydraulic fluid and to use a EP 80 gear oil. The chart says to use ATF 220.

I have never heard of using the engine oil to supply a hydraulic system. Logic tells me that the engine should get a 5W 20 Diesel Oil. The gear case, which would also serve the hydraulic system would get the ATF 220. This is a late 1970's build tractor so will probably use the Northland Transdraulic oil, same as I have used in all the Bolens and Cub Cadet hydro as recommended for several years. Lot of changes in oil in 50 years.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions to make sure I am going the right direction with this?
 
chieffan said:
I have never heard of using the engine oil to supply a hydraulic system.
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Both my hydraulic drive Case garden tractors use motor oil in the hydraulic system for the hydraulic pump, motor and lift cylinders. Right in the manual,it says, do not use hydraulic oil, only use motor oil. Seems a little confusing, but that’s what it says. So I’m using 15w-40 motor oil in both hydraulic systems in my Cases. In the Case transmission/differential, it says to use gear oil or motor oil.
In my Ford YT16H hydro tractor, you use 20w motor oil in the hydrostatic drive.
I’m no help to you Roger.

Noel
 
I don't believe any hydraulic system uses dirty engine oil for the hydraulic system. Roger, I'd say you're heading the right direction.
 
Propane1 said:
Both my hydraulic drive Case garden tractors use motor oil in the hydraulic system for the hydraulic pump, motor and lift cylinders. Right in the manual,it says, do not use hydraulic oil, only use motor oil. Seems a little confusing, but that’s what it says. So I’m using 15w-40 motor oil in both hydraulic systems in my Cases. In the Case transmission/differential, it says to use gear oil or motor oil.
In my Ford YT16H hydro tractor, you use 20w motor oil in the hydrostatic drive.
I’m no help to you Roger.

Noel
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May use motor oil but from the engine crank case ? ? The engine only holds 3 liters. Not any where near enough to supply the hydraulic system also. The gear case holds 2.5 gal. . Sounds right for the rear end and transmission as well as the hydro system. Engine is draining now, going after a couple filters and some 5W- 20/40 diesel oil. Will do the rear end & hydro later.
 
chieffan said:
May use motor oil but from the engine crank case ? ? The engine only holds 3 liters. Not any where near enough to supply the hydraulic system also. The gear case holds 2.5 gal. . Sounds right for the rear end and transmission as well as the hydro system. Engine is draining now, going after a couple filters and some 5W- 20/40 diesel oil. Will do the rear end & hydro later.
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Ya, sorry Roger I miss under stood what you said. I get it now. Case hydraulics are separate from the engine oil. Both separate systems.

I’m a little like the Chevy cars. SS, but in my case it means different. Slow, Stupid.

Noel
 
Not problem Noel. It gets a little confusing when a manual contradictions itself. It has a oil pan heater and will be using that so the oil should be warmed up decent when I go to use it in cold weather.
 
olcowhand said:
Many hydraulic systems do use std motor oil. Usually has much better lube protection and longevity than cheaper hytrans fluid.
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There is some real cheap hydraulic fluid out there. I have always stayed away from them completely. I like the Northland oils and Baldwin filters as I have local access to both at the same place.
 
Have not heard of Hastings. NAPA Gold are good too. Northland about has the market cornered on oils. They went all out several years ago and set the farmers etc. up with 150 gal bulk tanks of engine oil and hydraulic oil. When they get low call their local dealer, he sends in the order, truck brings the new tank and puts it in place, old tank is weighed in and credit given for remainder of oil. Farmer does nothing but call in the order and write the check.
 
chieffan said:
I have a copy of the owners manual for the Satoh Beaver tractor. One place in the servicing section it says the engine oil is also the hydraulic system oil with no mention of what oil to use. In a chart in the same manual is shows to use a multi grade 10W oil. Then later in the servicing it states the gear case fluid is also the hydraulic fluid and to use a EP 80 gear oil. The chart says to use ATF 220.

I have never heard of using the engine oil to supply a hydraulic system. Logic tells me that the engine should get a 5W 20 Diesel Oil. The gear case, which would also serve the hydraulic system would get the ATF 220. This is a late 1970's build tractor so will probably use the Northland Transdraulic oil, same as I have used in all the Bolens and Cub Cadet hydro as recommended for several years. Lot of changes in oil in 50 years.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions to make sure I am going the right direction with this?
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The 5W20 tends to be too thin for a Japan diesel engine. Per the chart in the service manual, it's easier to find Rotella T4 10W30 for the Japan engines for winter use (top right box called Shell Rotella TX10W30). Summertime these machines use Rotella T4 10W30 or straight SAE 30W.

As for hydraulic oil, that's been a puzzlement for both Mitsubishi and Satoh machines. I've glanced at several manuals without having a conclusive answer. I too have used the Cub Cadet hydro oil, BUT it's sooooo pricey! Then I found out that the Chrysler/Mopar ATF+4 is basically the SAME THING for 1/3rd the cost.

Yeah on the Service Manual 1-6 indeed says to used SAE 80. Indeed very weird.
Did you read the fine print in the middle of 1-7.
* These specifications are subject to change without previous notice.

So, this can really leave you guessing.

1640395958238.png

And then it says in the OPS Manual - - - EP-80. FWIW, I would avoid EP-80 because it's hydraulic fluid mixed to a ratio of mineral oil.
SAE-80

1640396508726.png

OK, SAE 30W engine oil is the SAME viscosity as SAE 80W hydraulic fluid. In fact the multi-grade 10W30 or SAE 80W tends to be the base oil for making hydraulic fluid. In many applications for machinery, it can be interchangeable. Just that SAE80W tend to be lighter in weight.
There is a slew of discussions over on BOBISTHEOILGUY website on this.

Gear oil and motor oil are not measured on the same scale.
 
Thanks much for that information. I have been using Shell 10W-40 in my Kubota diesel in the cub cadet and had half a pail on hand so that is what went in. Old oil was real black so will run it some and change again. Since this will be my only diesel will go with the Shell Rotella 10W-30. Gear case/hydro system will get the Northland Transdraulic. It has an oil pan heating pad so can warm the oil up before starting it in cold weather.
 
chieffan said:
Thanks much for that information. I have been using Shell 10W-40 in my Kubota diesel in the cub cadet and had half a pail on hand so that is what went in. Old oil was real black so will run it some and change again. Since this will be my only diesel will go with the Shell Rotella 10W-30. Gear case/hydro system will get the Northland Transdraulic. It has an oil pan heating pad so can warm the oil up before starting it in cold weather.
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Owners of the Satoh machines really love them. For such a small machine, it's very capable of doing big tasks. Glad you are treating the machine very well. :)
 
Thanks Maverick. Dad taught me many years ago that proper maintenance is cheaper than repairs. Would you happen to kn\awo how to decipher the serial number on the tractor? Mine is 811300D-200750 if I read it all right. My wild guess is the first two digits is the year, in this case an '81 ??
 
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chieffan said:
Thanks Maverick. Dad taught me many years ago that proper maintenance is cheaper than repairs. Would you happen to kn\awo how to decipher the serial number on the tractor? Mine is 811300D-200750 if I read it all right. My wild guess is the first two digits is the year, in this case an '81 ??
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A little time back, I was browsing a few of the manuals and it showed how to read the serial number.

The SATOH BISON S670 PARTS CATALOGUE.pdf tells how to figure it out.
 
Going to get one ordered today, just have to figure out which one has the best quality photos.
 
BMaverick said:
Why do you need to order any Mitsubishi-Satoh manuals? They are FREE on the TF website.
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I looked on here and never found a one. To late now anyway. Got an original parts manual coming. To many photo copied manuals have ink blobs for photos.
 
BMaverick,
Why do you need to order any Mitsubishi-Satoh manuals? They are FREE on the TF website.
[/QUOTE]
What TF web site are you talking about. Nothing on Tractor Fanatics.
 
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