Thoughts on this cobbled hydraulic setup?

MFDAC

Tractorologist
Senior Member
Member
I've been doing some thinking on this homemade hydraulic setup that has been of my MF8E since I have had it, and that has been since around 1992. It works, but not well. All it will control it up and down. I can't angle the blade due to the pivot geometry and it doesn't "float" when pushing. I've used it for pushing dirt, gravel, snow and even pickup trucks.

A while back I test-fitted the lift lever and it will hit the hydraulic valve but it is fortunate the guy I got the tractor from so long ago still had it. I sat and studied the setup this afternoon and decided it may be possible to modify what I have, incorporating the original lift lever for the blade angle mechanism (First picture).

If the valve is moved closer to the hood, the lift lever should have full swing so I don't think that will be too difficult. I could use half of that two spool that is much smaller size wise but I have no idea if that valve would work with this homemade setup (Second picture). I know just a little less about hydraulics than the guy that built this setup to begin with!

I would need to move the up-down pivot of the bade up quite a ways, which looks simple enough but then the cylinder would have to attach to the underside of the blade arm rather than the top side (Third picture). The bracket on the bottom would be built with a slot so there is some blade float.

Then the next problem is that would reverse up and down at the hydraulic lever. Can I just swap the cylinder hoses at the bottom of the valve reversing the push-pull of the cylinder (Fourth picture)? I like that forward on the lever is down and pull is up. I also would like to slow the action of the cylinder, but don't know how to do that either. Someone told me about a "flow restrictor" on GTT one time but can't remember the details now.

If all that works, the reason for the lift lever would be for blade angle. I would remove the lock pin on the blade and run linkage from the outer pivot (Fifth Picture) of the original lift lever so it would "lock" the blade at the needed angle. This old International blade has to be angled by getting off the tractor.

Any advice is appreciated!---DAC

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Any help and advice is appreciated!---DAC
 
Does the 2 valve spool valve have a float position by chance? It would be better to have a valve with float built into it. Yes, you can reverse the hoses at the valve and reverse the action if the cylinder.

I wouldn't know how to tell Brian. All I know about this valve is that I think it has never been used. It was on a shelf at work and then a bunch of stuff on shelves were gone. I always check the dumpsters after the parts man does inventory. Yup, went dumpster diving to retrieve it and some tools too.

Or you can reverse the hoses at the cylinder and do the same thing!

Sounds good I will do whichever end that works best for hose length if I proceed with this thought.

Thanks for the help! These are more pics of that valve.

DAC
 

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Quite often there is a detent when the handle is pushed in one direction if it has a float position.
Also, one spool will have a longer cap on the back end. Not seeing that on your valve there. Here's the valve I used on Alice.DSCN2404.jpg

Notice the long cap on the upper spool. That's for the float.
 
Quite often there is a detent when the handle is pushed in one direction if it has a float position.

I need to build a lever for the two-spool in order to feel the mechanism action, but visibly, I'm pretty sure there's no detent to keep it in a float position.

Also, one spool will have a longer cap on the back end. Not seeing that on your valve there. Here's the valve I used on Alice.View attachment 10239

Notice the long cap on the upper spool. That's for the float.

Yeah they are quite different Kenny. Hopefully this weekend I may get to take off the blade and see if a relocation is doable to get the blade angle pivot geometry right, then plan mounts and move the valve for lever clearance. Leaning towards keeping the valve that's already there I guess.

DAC
 
Does any of you know how to slow down the "action" of the cylinder? It is an instant fast motion in and out and There's no feathering it. I have to use quick little movements on the lever.

Thanks, DAC
 
Only way I know is put a valve in line from the pump to the valves to control/restrict the oil flow to the valves.

Thanks Brian, next thing to do then I suppose is find out what kind of psi an old power steering pump puts out to find a suitable valve. It seems like someone a long time ago told me of a restrictor that could be installed on one of the fittings to limit flow but bad memory at work again.

DAC
 
Thanks Brian, next thing to do then I suppose is find out what kind of psi an old power steering pump puts out to find a suitable valve. It seems like someone a long time ago told me of a restrictor that could be installed on one of the fittings to limit flow but bad memory at work again.

DAC
They do make those fittings! I had one on Alice's return line, causing a high pressure issue.
DSCN1872.jpg

Have you got a gauge you can hook to the system? Also, does your valve have an adjustment for pressure?
 
They do make those fittings! I had one on Alice's return line, causing a high pressure issue.
View attachment 10273

Have you got a gauge you can hook to the system? Also, does your valve have an adjustment for pressure?

Thanks for the help Kenny, those restrictors definitely look familiar! I probably need to check into finding some of them. I imagine that it would be installed on the pump pressure side to be correct?

I don't have a gauge that could read the pressure, and I don't think that the valve has any pressure adjustment. I would think if this had an actual hydraulic pump rather than a very old power steering pump, it would be less difficult!

Pics of the existing valve.

DAC

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Those fittings were from a Ford. I don't see anything to adjust pressure there.
 
Most all of the wheel type hay rakes that have the arms with the wheels the fold up and down have that restrictor valve on them. Keeps the boom from dropping fast. The valve is usually at the cylinder. The JD rake I had took forever to lower the wheels you would have to stop and wait on it. I drill the hole out a bit and went overboard. Put a cotter key in the hole and it worked good. Don't put the valve on the pump as it will cause to much back pressure.
 
Most all of the wheel type hay rakes that have the arms with the wheels the fold up and down have that restrictor valve on them. Keeps the boom from dropping fast. The valve is usually at the cylinder. The JD rake I had took forever to lower the wheels you would have to stop and wait on it. I drill the hole out a bit and went overboard. Put a cotter key in the hole and it worked good. Don't put the valve on the pump as it will cause to much back pressure.

To keep in and out speed of the cylinder equal then, one orfices should be on each hose then? Would it matter which end of the hose it is on, right at the cylinder or coming out of the control valve?

Thanks---DAC
 
To keep in and out speed of the cylinder equal then, one orfices should be on each hose then? Would it matter which end of the hose it is on, right at the cylinder or coming out of the control valve?

Thanks---DAC
It shouldn't matter. Either way. Whatever is easiest to get to!
 
Thanks for the answer there Kenny, valve is easiest! I went ahead and started to do these modifications today. I got the hydraulic control moved and the original lift lever installed. Working on a rough idea of linkage for the blade angle setup. I noticed an original guide. Looks like 3/8" rod will fit through it fine. The chunk of all thread is just for eyeballing a route for the rod. Hopefully tomorrow I will get the blade off the tractor and see about relocation of the cylinder mount. Here's some pics.

DAC

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Didn't get a lot done today. Painted that bracket that I built yesterday, finished installing the lift lever and have a possible plan for lift/float linkage for the blade. I'll try to pick up some 3/8" rod tomorrow after a doc appt.

DAC
 
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