Ethanol Issue!

KennyP

KennyP

In memory of Alice's Creator
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I took a 5 gallon tank out of a parts mower this morning. Saw it had some black slime in it, so I mixed up a potion. This was Seafoam, MMO, gas, and Denatured alcohol. Shook this mixture in the tank for several hours. Finally, the black gunk let go. This stuff is like molasses. But it has the capability of melting rubber fuel lines! Super sticky and nasty!

Here's whats in the jar after I poured the top off! I shook it some, but it separates within 10 minutes.
DSCN4645.JPG DSCN4646.JPG

Nasty crud!
 
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You’ve cleaned something I took the lazy way out on not long ago! The 67 PK that I picked up last month had that black tar funk in the fuel bowl! I did away with it and just put it in the box with the rest of my spare fuel bowls.
 
Good thing no ethanol in my neck of the woods. We use alcohol as it’s intended
I know some of the additives in fuel cause issues with rubber fuel lines in small engines. I use a green coloured line that is supposed to be impervious to the additives
 
How do you know it was Ethanol that caused that issue ? If it was in the tank, is the tank rubber to get attacked by what ever was in it? I use nothing but Ethanol in everything & have NO ISSUES that can be attributed to Ethanol. The OLD obsolete rubber fuel lines and gaskets would be attacked by Ethanol but those items are decades old. Guess if you don't know what caused the issue, blame it on Ethanol.
 
chieffan said:
How do you know it was Ethanol that caused that issue ? If it was in the tank, is the tank rubber to get attacked by what ever was in it? I use nothing but Ethanol in everything & have NO ISSUES that can be attributed to Ethanol. The OLD obsolete rubber fuel lines and gaskets would be attacked by Ethanol but those items are decades old. Guess if you don't know what caused the issue, blame it on Ethanol.
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I would say you have been very lucky! Won't say anymore!
 
No luck involved & you didn't answer my question. I just get tired of people knocking Ethanol when they have no basis for their blame. Kind of like the fireman at a structure fire. Have no clue what caused it so they say electrical with a rusty piece of barb wire in thir hand.
 
chieffan said:
I just get tired of people knocking Ethanol when they have no basis for their blame.
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I've told this story before but will do it again. We have family members that have been in the small engine business for 2 generations and have a lot of experience with the negative effects of ethanol. They've said that they can tell as soon as they open a fuel system whether it has had ethanol in it or not. Most customer complaints turn out to be fuel related. The shelf life of ethanol fuels is much shorter than regular gasoline. I know people who sell ethanol that won't run it in their vehicles. Just repeating what I've been told.
That being said I'm glad the farmers are benefiting from it and hope they continue to do so. But there is strong evidence that it was introduced to the market before the technology was available to make it a viable alternative to gasoline. The newer vehicles have non vented fuel systems that prevent the introduction of moisture into the fuel systems. Most small engines do not. Ethanol absorbs water like a sponge. When the two mix in a fuel system it's not good. Ethanol is a solvent and can be corrosive to materials in older fuel systems. It would seem most of these materials have been modified or replaced in newer systems. The problem is a lot of us here enjoy operating the older equipment so it is more of a problem for us. It should also be noted that a Gallon of ethanol has 33% less energy than a gallon of gasoline.
If anything I've mentioned here is incorrect feel free to correct me. I'd like to know about it.
This is interesting reading and there is much more on line.
The Disadvantages of Adding Ethanol to Your Fuel
 
My basis is that my carbureted trucks run like crap with ethanol fuel and run great on non-ethanol! Carb problems stopped on the '55 when nonE became available again several years ago. I use it in all the small engines and when I forget to use sta-bil, they start and run good right away after long periods of non-use. I put e-10 and non-E in baby food jars a few years ago and just set them open on a shelf. The e10 turned hazy and evaporated a lot faster than the nonE. It left a white, ash looking substance in the jar bottom. The nonE jar looked clear after it evaporated but with my finger I could still feel a bit of a film on the glass. Not scientific for sure but I'm damm glad nonE is available here!

DAC
 
I bought a new 1977 Datsun PU. You couldn't even put a can of fuel line de-icer in it and it wouldn't hardly run. Remember having to pump the gas pedal 30 miles just to keep it running so I could get to work. . Get that out of the system and it would run like a champ. Our 1986 Caravan wasn't much better. Mitsubishi engine in that. Our newer vehicles don't seem to have much problem with Ethanol.
 
chieffan said:
No luck involved & you didn't answer my question. I just get tired of people knocking Ethanol when they have no basis for their blame. Kind of like the fireman at a structure fire. Have no clue what caused it so they say electrical with a rusty piece of barb wire in thir hand.
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I have found the black crud in the bottom of many tanks and carbs around here. Owners admit their use of ethanol gas in these units! Sop it must be the ethanol! Never had this issue before ethanol!
 
chieffan said:
No luck involved & you didn't answer my question. I just get tired of people knocking Ethanol when they have no basis for their blame . . .
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Other than gas, ethanol, and water, what other things do you suppose were in there?
 
Once someone gets it in their head that something is bad, no amount of evidence on earth will change their mind. Just started a gas hedge clipper the other day that had not been run since last September. 1/2 tank of 32:1 3rd pull and it was running and stayed running. Guess I get a better grade.
 
chieffan said:
Once someone gets it in their head that something is bad,
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Or good, most things like this can go both ways.
The thing that really set me off about ethanol is the way (lies) the funding was approved. When ethanol production was in its infancy there were concerns about the use of ag products pushing up the prices of the foods we eat. So ethanol was to be produced from agricultural byproducts. Corn stalks and such. Once the funding was approved things went south in a hurry. First thing you know ethanol is competing directly with the world's food resources. Ironically farmers are now getting paid more but are also paying more for the feed they need for their livestock. Also because corn prices have gone up they start producing more of it so the price of corn is driven lower so now they are getting less per bushel so they plant more corn per acre and the prices go even lower. The only people making out here are the ethanol producers because the taxpayers are subsidizing the production of their product. Like I said, I want to see Farmers succeed but I think both them and us have been lead down a dead end road.
So thanks to misrepresentation you and I are paying twice (taxes and at the pump) for a product that takes more energy to produce than it produces.
Are you really sure these are the people you want running your health care?
 
Cvans said:
Or good, most things like this can go both ways.
The thing that really set me off about ethanol is the way (lies) the funding was approved. When ethanol production was in its infancy there were concerns about the use of ag products pushing up the prices of the foods we eat. So ethanol was to be produced from agricultural byproducts. Corn stalks and such. Once the funding was approved things went south in a hurry. First thing you know ethanol is competing directly with the world's food resources. Ironically farmers are now getting paid more but are also paying more for the feed they need for their livestock. Also because corn prices have gone up they start producing more of it so the price of corn is driven lower so now they are getting less per bushel so they plant more corn per acre and the prices go even lower. The only people making out here are the ethanol producers because the taxpayers are subsidizing the production of their product. Like I said, I want to see Farmers succeed but I think both them and us have been lead down a dead end road.
So thanks to misrepresentation you and I are paying twice (taxes and at the pump) for a product that takes more energy to produce than it produces.
Are you really sure these are the people you want running your health care?
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Heres my opinion. Alcohol for motor fuel is just a bad idea! If it was so great as a motor fuel, it wouldnt have gone out with buggy whips. Gasoline is all around better. Diesel even more so. Propane and natural gas even better and free to produce.
 
I don't know all the fine details but the yellow field corn used to produce Ethanol is not used for food. White corn is sued for food products last I knew so Ethanol is not competing with food supply. All the by product from Ethanol production goes right back into the feed supply for livestock. Ethanol has little to do with the price of cron but it does have some effect. Exported car far exceeds the amount used for Ethanol. When the exports drop, so does the price as supply far outweighs demand. Corn prices around her last fall were $3.10 per bushel, about what it was 15 years ago. Corn prices have gone up only on a spike a few years ago for a few months, then it came right back down again and stayed. Ethanol is just another market for a crop produced and helps keep the cost of our imported crude oil down. Recently the gas prices have been dropping, mainly due to allowing Ethanol to be sold year around and not reduce the amount through summer.

Pakrat you opinion is so far out in left field I won't bother to comment.
 
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