Massey 1655 Three point a bit weak, drops under load.

SupplySergeant

Tractorologist
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I used the three point hitch on my customized Massey 1655 yesterday, lifting about 400 lbs. It's rated for 650 according to the manual, but couldn't lift more than about 300. It was also dropping all the way in about five minutes. It runs off the hydrostatic system, with a regular hydraulic cylinder. Wondering If I need to look at the cylinder or something inside the hydro first?

(and Daniel, no you can't fix it for free, this stuff comes with old equipment!)
 
If you have an engine stethoscope, lift as heavy a load as it will lift, leave it up, shut engine off, then listen to the lift cylinder to see if you can hear the piston o-rings bypassing. A stick will often serve as a redneck stethoscope. Dropping that fast either running or not points to either the cylinder piston is leaking, or the control valves, but more likely the cylinder.
 
Thanks, that's about what I thought. It's at a friends house in Louisville right now, the loader made quick work of moving a 900 lb machine tool. I was in a big hurry to get home, so I'll pick it up later in the week and then diagnose the cylinder in the Harbor Freight parking lot! If I hear fluid leaking down in the cylinder, I'll take it off right there and take it to a good hydraulic shop for a rebuild, since it's a welded cylinder and I would rather not try it myself.
 
I kinda figured it was the cylinder, I know olcowhand had to pull it off another Massey to get three point on the tractor for me, and the hydro runs great. If I can find another to buy, I'll get them both rebuilt, and start my parts hoard for my new baby!
 
Well, got the new cylinder in. It will lift about 400 pounds, slowly, too slowly. And it still drops, but much slower than it did. Am I looking at the valve, or is the charge pump likely to need rebuilt? The tractor moves out with authority in both low and high range, so I tended to discount the charge pump. I did just order a hydraulic gage set, to check the relief valve pressure.

If it is the valve or charge pump, can anyone point me to a resource to get the rebuild parts? Both the valve kit and charge pump kits seem to be NLA. I had also thought about replacing the valve with a standard unit, chinese 1 spool valves are cheap!
 
I'd definitely check the implement relief valve settings. If it is low, it just takes thin shims behind the spring to bump it up. It doesn't affect the hydro moving power at all if the implement relief setting is even pitifully low. I never even checked this relief valve as I never used this circuit. One other thing you might consider is plumbing hydraulics from the front end loader's hydraulics to power the 3 point if you run into more issues.
 
I'd definitely check the implement relief valve settings. If it is low, it just takes thin shims behind the spring to bump it up. It doesn't affect the hydro moving power at all if the implement relief setting is even pitifully low. I never even checked this relief valve as I never used this circuit. One other thing you might consider is plumbing hydraulics from the front end loader's hydraulics to power the 3 point if you run into more issues.
The manual says the charge pump relief for the drive circuit is 70-150 PSI, and the charge pump implement circuit is to be 550-700, so I can see how it would drive great and not lift! I ordered the hydraulic gage to test the relief valve settings, good to know I wasn't totally off base! I was thinking about tapping the front pump, would I need to use a power-beyond valve for the loader, then run the lines to the three-point? I need to figure that out anyway, as this winter's project is building that backhoe for her, and that needs a 6 spool valve!
 
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To use front loader hydraulics, I don't think you'd need any extra valve, as you'd not likely never need to use the loader and 3 point at the exact same time.
 
To use front loader hydraulics, I don't think you'd need any extra valve, as you'd not likely never need to use the loader and 3 point at the exact same time.
Pretty sure you're right about using them together, highly unlikely.

But, how and where would I tap the lines to run them to the rear? I was under the impression that just teeing into them would cause the oil to flow thorough whatever valve wasn't being used, since they are open-center? In case it isn't obvious, I haven't done much hydraulics work!
 
For the 3 point, just use the return line from the loader's control valves to provide pressure to the 3 point valves, then return line from 3 point valves back to the tank where the loader's valves did return to. Just think of it as being a "loop circuit". The 3 point will work whenever the loader isn't using all the pressure.
 
For the 3 point, just use the return line from the loader's control valves to provide pressure to the 3 point valves, then return line from 3 point valves back to the tank where the loader's valves did return to.
That makes sense, the return line is dumping full flow when I'm not using the loader, right?
 
Well, my test kit finally came in. The charge pump implement circuit is nicely in spec, it's giving me 650 PSI when the relief hits, spec is 550-700. No leaks on the hoses or connectors, so I think that just leaves the valve. It can leak internally, right?

Olcowhand used the same valve for the loader, so I think my plan to reduce downtime is to get a standard valve for the loader, rebuild the Massey specific one I take off, and put it in the fender 3-point position. I found a nice, new 3-spool valve for $65 to the door, with a built in relief and power-beyond if I want to run something else.
 
I'm wondering if the problem is in the power beyond on the steering valve? Full pressure may not be getting to the hydraulic control valve if the power beyond in the steering valve is not functioning right.
 
I'm wondering if the problem is in the power beyond on the steering valve? Full pressure may not be getting to the hydraulic control valve if the power beyond in the steering valve is not functioning right.
I forgot that was running off the implement circuit! I don't remember what you said you got the steering valve from, I'll look for troubleshooting guides once I know.

It's probably best to just pull the three point off the implement circuit and run it from the loader pump, I just hoped to avoid making new hydraulic lines! Oh, well, time to put my 37 degree flare tool to work!
 
Sounds like I will be going with the front pump, then! Thanks!
If you do, the hose currently providing pressure to the 3 point valve must be T'd into the return line going back to the hydro unit. Edit due to brain fart: But all it will take is a coupler to take the place of the hydraulic control valve. Couple input and output hoses currently on control valve.
 
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