Dumb crazy question

D

dodge trucker

Tractorologist
Senior Member
Member
As some here might have seen posted elsewhere I am in a bit of a situation with a yard project. My haban built, Ariens tractor mount, rear PTO driven tiller is down. I bought a Troy bilt horse to get me by and finish the job. It's also got issues.
In order to get the Horse back up and usable again, I remembered I have a 12hp Kohler k301 in the shed I believe off a concrete saw, it is a pull start magneto ignition version. That engine ran good when I had it out and it's currently collecting dust. Has anyone here ever put such an engine on a machine like this? I know some tillers like this came with 7-8hp Kohlers, and some with 11hp Briggs ... I have parts on order for a valve job for the original hh60 but am admittedly in a hurry to get something done... It looks like crap.
Am I nuts? (Ok don't answer that)
Think it could be done without too much fanfare?
I've seen many rear tune tillers with counterweight mounted under the engine, this thing should be counterweight enough haha...
 
No, single shaft, I don't think the dual shaft came out til much later, and I remember it on the newer TBs, don't remember which one(s)
I just came home with another option, an 11hp OHV Tecumseh low hour from a snow blower. Went to a neighbor's house to work on a truck transmission we have torn apart over there....
One bad part about the 11hp is that it does have the extended cam, which I would have to cut off. Price was right though. ( Free, trade favor sort of price... ) I'd just have to come up with an air filter. Since snow blowers don't have any.
Does anybody know what the crank diameter is on a Troy bilt horse? This one does have the double belt drive.that will help determine which way I go with this machine....
 
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Ok the original engine has gained hope for (what I'm gonna call) "salvage ability".
I busted both bolts off in removing the muffler (which is shot, I worked around it when I removed the valves)
One had enough sticking out to get channel locks on, and heated the mount ear cherry red and was able to back out.
The other one had to wait for today when I could clean up my mess in the end of the garage consisting of this tiller, my Ariens (which was up on stands so I could work on that busted tiller) and all the associated parts for both, and pull the Fury out so I could get the TB towards the front of the garage close to the MiG and the torch tanks. I was able to weld a nut onto the lower bolt stub (was busted pretty much flush with the casting) and heated the bottom ear with the torch and it walked right out with a ratchet and socket.

I have a set of NOS valves and a new (stens) muffler coming for it via eBay, just gotta wait for it to show. Besides those I just need about 4 gaskets from the place down the road... I have a new head gasket here for it...
That motor will live whether it's still on this tiller or not.

I also put a little bit of gas in the 11hp that followed me home yesterday and took advantage of it's electric starter, it fired right off and sounds great. But I gotta stop by the old small engine shop in town and see if he might have an air filter housing I can add to it before I decide to put that motor on there ...

I was supposed to buy this horse, use it to finish the job at hand and relist it.... If I put the 11hp on there 2 things will happen... I won't be able to use the protector bars as they don't stick out far enough to allow them with the size of the 11hp, and for 2, if I almost double the HP of the original engine I will have to keep it then....
And double shaft engines can be hard to find when needed.... In this case I'd have to cut the extended cam off to use the 11hp...
It does have the right diameter 3/4 crank for this tiller and does have a double bolt pattern, the smaller one will match the "bell housing" on the horse....
The 12hp Kohler k301 I originally considered as a repower candidate pretty sure has a bigger crank PTO, meaning id have to dismantle that engine and have the crank PTO cut down and a new fresh keyway machines in... Of which I have a source for such a "government job" (my son)
But the Kohler is semi buried right now, I haven't laid eyes on in almost a year ... But that one I do know exactly where it lays ...
I'm on the fence about fixing the tractor mount tiller or whether to just add it to the scrap pile, as is in pieces since I don't use that very much anyway.
I have 3 factory Ariens service manuals and none has a breakdown of that tiller included within. It only tells of the most basic of maintenance and adjustments pertaining to it... Even though they have breakdowns listed of everything else Ariens sold those years....
 
Well an unexpected option 3 has popped up even if temporary (as in "will work long enough to get this job done then I'll have plenty of time to do it right")
I went by a lawn mower scrapper guy that I pass daily to and from work looking for an air filter housing for the 11hp. He took me thru his quonset building and had me helping him find one of those oval air filter housings the 8hp+ horizontal Tecumseh's that weren't snow blower engines came with, and along the way I tripped on another HH60 identical to the one that came on the tiller. Complete except for the pull starter.
I happened to run into that guy later that night, and told him I might be back for that "red motor" we saw....
So yesterday I stopped by and got it. Quite cheap, I figured between it and the original one I could make 1 out of the 2.... It cost me more money for the set of points and condenser I had to buy to get it going than he charged me for this motor ..
I spun it over by hand via the starter cup and it wasn't blown or seized...
So last night while the prez debate was on I got this motor running..I'm sure at least a couple of my neighbors weren't happy... Too bad.
The sound of a running cast iron Tecumseh was better than what was on the TV at the time...
It took that set of points and condenser plus "borrowing" the carb from the original engine and the junkyard refugee fired right up...
I don't want to use that 11hp I got until I find an air cleaner housing for it, I don't want to kill that motor anytime soon.... It starts too easy and sounds too good for that...
This one smokes abit when going from idle to full throttle but I dunno how long it sat either. It definitely sounds better and starts easier, while feeling like it has more compression than what I took off..... And now it decides to rain.... So I can't go try it out and see....

This TB was a "temporary" deal anyway, just long enough to get this job done. It may stick around longer....

And now I can give the original engine a better "going over" without feeling rushed....
 
I have 2 problems with them.
One is where they're made
The other is if anything does happen to them I've never seen any parts listed for them, throw them wand put a whole nother motor in in their place
 
I would agree with Daniel on the Predator engines. Only one issue I ran into with a 9hp several years ago on a wood splitter was it did not have the hang power the old cast iron 10 hp Briggs did. Other than that, a good engine. Just put a new one my rear time tiller sleeve hitch mount. When a 12 hp can be bought new on sale for $100 why bother with fixing up an old one?
 
dodge trucker said:
I have 2 problems with them.
One is where they're made
The other is if anything does happen to them I've never seen any parts listed for them, throw them wand put a whole nother motor in in their place
Click to expand...
No parts? Dude the minibike and go cart people have tons of parts all the way from stock rebuild to full blown alcohol engines. Not to mention pretty much and Honda 190 part will fit the predator 6.5.
Aaron can attest to that as I believe he's built a couple.
I get the while China thing, but for under $150 with no headaches, sometimes it just needs to happen.
 
dodge trucker said:
I have 2 problems with them.
One is where they're made
The other is if anything does happen to them I've never seen any parts listed for them, throw them wand put a whole nother motor in in their place
Click to expand...
There are parts EVERY WHERE

Some of the Honda OEM parts fit the predator. There are huge amounts of aftermarket. You can get on Amazon and order every piece and part inside the motor. Piston and rings..20 bucks with gasket kit, rod and crank…25 bucks…cam..10 bucks….carbs…10 bucks…

You can also get the 196 clones which almost every Honda part works in.

I don’t recommend the 7.5hp ones. They run great, but They are an odd duck may be tough to find parts for. But there is one on Amazon right now with electric start for 125 bucks. So for that price…

I do agree they are made in china and I don’t like that either. It’s hard not to buy anything that isn’t made in china these days. But that’s an entirely different topic..

I do agree there is nothing like the sound of an old Tecumseh or Briggs! I’ve been keeping a few H50, H40, HS40, HS50, HM80, and an HM100 running for 20 years now….plus the HH120(I think) on the sears!
 
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I now have 2 little to no struggle repower options in hand. (Ok haters here ya go) Both Happen to be Tecumseh. I have the 11hp ohv snow king engine that I've found an air filter assembly for, and now as of yesterday I have an 8hp that was a power washer.
The PW was a CL find. I've seen it out there advertised since some time last year.
The engine, cart, hose, wand (and a brand new wand handle) and tips, minus the pump. The PO already had pulled the pump and got rid of it. He says he couldn't find a replacement pump so he went and bought a whole nother PW.
PW pumps aren't hard to find. The PO obviously just didn't know where to look. He admitted to " not being very mechanical" though.
I've found power washers to be a great source of engines for repowers over the years, usually have low to no run time, where the owners don't winterize them and they freeze up and crack. Both horizontal and vertical can be had.

I'd just bought a new hose for my PW ($60 and it felt "cheap" for the price paid/ not worth that much to me)
I hadn't used the new hose yet.
I originally just sent the guy with the PW a message/ as he had advertised as it being an 8hp Briggs, and I told him that it was really a Tecumseh. So he thanked me and changed his ad.
We went back n forth a couple of times and I decided "screw it," and went ahead and got it. I like the bare PW carts for putting my spare engines on wheels so to speak, work great to have a mobile platform to bolt one to for test purposes and saves my back lifting and setting them back onto the ground. I've gotten several bare PW carts for free by the curbside.

But being as how the new hose for my unit was $60 by itself, the seller had $70 on this whole thing (started with $100 last year) I asked him if there was any wiggle room, he came back with $60 and I loaded it up for that, didn't push it any farther. ( I was thinking $50)
Hey, I got all the extra accessories for my PW and basically the motor was free... Or I paid for the motor and got the PW accessories for free. Bought this setup last night, returned the new (still in the package) hose this morning, for a "wash".

Im thinking of using the 8 instead of the 11 on the tiller , because either is still more than 6hp, both would be a direct bolt on, and though it would be easy, I hate to cut the extended cam off the 11 as those engines are tough to get when you are actually looking for one that has it...
This 8hp and the 11hp ohv actually take the same rod and piston, (I've been down this road before, but in reverse) the 11hp in this case actually has the right crank PTO im gonna need for the Horse, but has the cam extension.
"Not" being a "snow" engine the 8hp actually has a more favorable throttle/governor linkage setup
And yeah I've had the 8hp running since I brought it home.
I am out of "hurry up mode" to repower this tiller, as I was able to nurse the tiller thru the job I got it to do in the first place with the mosquito fogger 6hp...
The original plan, again, when I bought the tiller was just a crutch to get a job done that I was in the middle of doing, and then resell it. It did the job done that I bought it for. But once I get "more power" on it, I dunno if I'll be able to bring myself to let it go haha....
This is the 2nd 11hp OHV Tecumseh that I've had fall into my lap over the years..... I can't believe that the same displacement of engine can put out 40% more power just by converting them to OHV configuration. Wouldn't think so as OHV means there are more moving parts heating up and more friction points
 
dodge trucker said:
(Ok haters here ya go) Both Happen to be Tecumseh.
Click to expand...
Tecumseh? Is that some place in China that I've not heard of before?????
Actually I'm with you on those engines. I needed a small engine with electric start. Either 12v or 110v. Put an ad on the local radio station Farmers Market for such an engine and got a call right away. Guy had one on a snowblower that a drive sprocket went out of. Said I could have the whole thing free with a good running Tecumseh in it. That is one of the best starting engines and runs great. Had to come up with an air filter but that was easy. I'll take a good running Tecumseh any day. Ran them on Big-Mow riding mowers for years. If your going to run them hard in hot weather put 4oz. of STP in them and they will run forever.
 
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