E12 Puller

[QUOTE="Texas Horses Hogs and Deeres, The forward engines are actually not pulling the entire train.[/QUOTE]

Exactly the point I was making. BNSF pulls a lot of coal trains through here with 3 - 5 engine consists. They are all DC powered motors, one for each set of wheels. With 3 engines that is 18 motors all hooked together, but not necessarily pulling the same amount.
 
[QUOTE="Texas Horses Hogs and Deeres, The forward engines are actually not pulling the entire train.ly the point I was making. BNSF pulls a lot of coal trains through here with 3 - 5 engine consists. They are all DC powered motors, one for each set of wheels. With 3 engines that is 18 motors all hooked together, but not necessarily pulling the same amount.

It still doesn't apply to what is happening with this setup electrically. It would be different if we were discussing two separate electric tractors coupled together. It wouldn't matter what amperage the other tractor was pulling as each tractor's electrical system doesn't care about the other.

We are talking about connecting two electrical motors together on the same controller, same electrical feed that are mechanically locked together.
 
It still doesn't apply to what is happening with this setup electrically. It would be different if we were discussing two separate electric tractors coupled together. It wouldn't matter what amperage the other tractor was pulling as each tractor's electrical system doesn't care about the other.

We are talking about connecting two electrical motors together on the same controller, same electrical feed that are mechanically locked together.

I think this project is very interesting. I like the thinking, an electric motor is instant torque verses an internal combustion motor has to develop it's full torque potential. The mechanical advantage in using an electric motor for pulling for seconds at a time is huge (check out formula electric drag boats, stunning). With all the input this is getting, I think it's safe to say, there is a lot of interest in this type of innovation, and an interest in seeing this project succeed. I had to re-examine my first opinion or first reaction after reading all the comments, good input, I like that. This forum tends to have well thought out input. I hope I can do the same.

If I understand the basics of what you are building, you have wired these two motors in parallel on their own circuits, isolating the circuits for a way to both inherently protect them and control/improve performance as you experiment with the system?

By keeping this simple with common parts you build into the project a level of affordability and reduce total risk if something goes wrong (electrical pieces failing but easy to replace and relatively cheap) again if I'm seeing this right.

This looks like a "proof of concept" build, which is how I think most true innovation starts at the grass roots level (for those of us like myself that have to be very creative with limited resources, unlike a big corporation that tends to throw big budgets at product development).

I want to comment on Toomanytoys84 quote now,

I think what he is looking at, at least in part with his shared concern, is that the two isolated electric motors and their circuits are not isolated on the transmission of power side, (the single chain drive to the transmission). I don't want to put words in his mouth if I'm getting this wrong, so please chime in.

My initial reaction was similar because I thought of the current technology being used now in the market, such as hybrid vehicles. I'm not very concerned about motors drawing on isolated circuits, in theory at this point they are perfectly safe as long as the draw voltage, amps, and fuses are correct for each motor. Besides, lets say you got the numbers wrong, you lose a motor as the worst case scenario? Disappointing at worst for a short time, I consider this limited risk, in the process of proving your idea works.

I'm looking at the transmission part because the inevitable inequality between the two identical motors is still going to be present and using chain at least at first (without the opportunity to study if this should even be a consideration) is a precise means of transmitting power. Chain will not slip, at best it might stretch a little before catastrophic failure.

The Hybrids have a form of clutch between two power inputs to ensure the safe transmission of power or disengagement of power to protect the rest of the components plus power sources. Even if it's a "hick-up" in power for a moment the slip that a clutch or belt can give most likely would protect the project until you invent a way around the hypothetical obstacle, if it's even a concern at all.

An uneven load on the same chain or gear without slip protection has a "push pull" effect that may or may not be a problem at the loads being discussed, but I do think is worth examination, I'm not saying I think your project shouldn't be tried as is, this is your work, enjoy the process and know that there are those of us that deeply respect the initiative/risk that gets the job done. This is just my thoughts.

I also took the time to examine battery input with the voltage you gave. I'm guessing you went with an increase in voltage in order to reduce the amount of amps required on the supply line? This would improve safety of the project by controlling heat (if amps = heat, heat the killer of electronics).

Since this project is dealing with DC power in the less than 10-15hp range, your source power will need to supply 5hp worth of power to actually get the rated work from your motors. If watts is the rating for the work completed by an electric motor than you will need a circuit and battery capable of 1,864 watts x 2 (each 2.5hp motor) = 3,728 watts. If you divide 3728/72V you get 51amps. The tech to do this is widely available between forklifts and consumer solar now days.

Each motor may need the ability to draw 26 AHr at minimum (in keeping the circuits isolated, each motor with its own battery source or 52 AHr with one source). Of course I'm basing this on 1 hp = 746 watts. When joining batteries you can double voltage (series, pos to neg) or double AHr (parallel, pos to pos). To use a commonly known battery, HF solar battery with BCI-U1R I think, 12VDC, 35AHr, would be 6 batteries in series, 2 sets? There are more expensive, lighter, smaller, more complex ways to get the same results but this is keeping it simple for discussion.

I look forward to success of your project, and the updates.
 
I have a 36volt 200amp controller.
My idea if I can get it to work, is to run with the controller at 36volts to move the tractor around and start the pull, once I get going and I feel the tractor start to slow down a bit I hit a switch that turns on a contactor, bypasses the controller and applies 72 volt direct to the motors and run till the tractor stops.
Each motor will get 72volts and draw what every they can and what ever the batteries can deliver.
These motors came with a 105amp circuit breaker, I expect then to draw double that or more.
So 105 x 2 = 210
210 × 2 (motors) = 420amps in theroy if I'm right on this. ???

Now I'm working on the hitch and wheelie bars.

Doug has.opened.my eyes.several times with his silent tractors.
I think it'll be cool to go from 'stealth mode' to 'get out the way'
However, I know our local puller club wouldn't allow the switch. They would consider it changing gears or using multi power. They also have a 3mph limit.
Any way you could build it into the last half inch of the foot pedal? Then it would appear to be a normal part of the process. WOT so to speak
 
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Doug has.opened.my eyes.several times with his silent tractors.
I think it'll be cool to go from 'stealth mode' to 'get out the way'
However, I know our local puller club wouldn't allow the switch. They would consider it changing gears or using multi power. They also have a 3mph limit.
Any way you could build it into the last half inch of the foot pedal? Then it would appear to be a normal part of the process. WOT so to speak

Put the momentary contact switch to come on when foot pedal floored.
Could be done.
The 3 clubs I pull with do not have speed limit.
If they did I don't think I would need the 2nd motor or the extra voltage.
Run at 36volts and gear it for the right speed.
 
Finished and operational.
6 x 12 volt batteries, 72 volts, 550amp controller, each drive motor gets the full 72 volts.
Have taken it to a few pulls and getting to know what it can and can't do.
Apears to be a match for a 20hp gas engine tractor.
I have gone down the track 6 times in 1 day without recharging and no sign of loss of power from the batteries.
I like this thing.
 
Where is that damned " pics or it didn't happen" smiley?

Glad it's working well for you
It's too hard to upload pic here, takes too long. And I don't know why.
Videos don't work either and I don't have anything on my YouTube channel of it yet.
 
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