Yep, I remember the plumbers tape!
MF 1450
- Thread starter MFDAC
- Start date
Agreed Kenny!
I downloaded the 1650 exploded drawing and parts list so I will try to do some comparison, Kenny, thanks for the info as well as the parts I've gotten from you on this tractor.
Daniel has been a parts supplier on this thing too so thank-you for all the info and support.
The most valuable part is the members that spend their valuable time reading our posts and helping to solve problems with advice and knowledge! A person's time is priceless! Thank-you all!
There is definitely a big issue with that center lift part of the spool valve. All I know it that it moves the mechanism up and down like it should. I have to assume that the float position works too.
After removing the home made bracket that was holding on the broken spool cap, the lever will push the cap back about a half inch! That is visible in the last pic.
When the right lever pivot assembly Kenny sent gets here, I can test to see if that keeps this from happening! Not sure what kind of "stop" these things have to limit the travel. Maybe the "stop" is the cap and that's why it seems common for the caps to be broken? I've got some plumbers tape around here somewhere. Probably go that route rather than trying to buy a new or used one, and probably some JB Weld too.
DAC
Daniel has been a parts supplier on this thing too so thank-you for all the info and support.
The most valuable part is the members that spend their valuable time reading our posts and helping to solve problems with advice and knowledge! A person's time is priceless! Thank-you all!
There is definitely a big issue with that center lift part of the spool valve. All I know it that it moves the mechanism up and down like it should. I have to assume that the float position works too.
After removing the home made bracket that was holding on the broken spool cap, the lever will push the cap back about a half inch! That is visible in the last pic.
When the right lever pivot assembly Kenny sent gets here, I can test to see if that keeps this from happening! Not sure what kind of "stop" these things have to limit the travel. Maybe the "stop" is the cap and that's why it seems common for the caps to be broken? I've got some plumbers tape around here somewhere. Probably go that route rather than trying to buy a new or used one, and probably some JB Weld too.
DAC
When pulling the lever back, are you feeling it trying to 'lock' in that position? That should be where float is. This lever may be pushing the spool back too far causing it to break the housing. I can open that area up on the valve I have, just not sure I can get any pics. Plus I have homemade levers.
I searched through my pics when I rebuilt my valve in 2016. Hoping to have one with that rear cap off but no success. I'll see what I can do this weekend to get one and measure that spring.
See that protrusion just inside the cap? That has an allen head screw holding a spring and ball for the float detent, #16 on the pic in post #655, page 33.
See that protrusion just inside the cap? That has an allen head screw holding a spring and ball for the float detent, #16 on the pic in post #655, page 33.
Maybe someone took the detent #16 off and put the cap back on with shorter bolts. Just guessing.
Maybe make a spacer with two tabs with holes. Then use the strapping to hold it all together. Won’t have the detent thou. But you could make that part too in the spacer to have the detent. I would make the spacer long enough so you could put a bolt thru the strapping and dust cap to hold it in place. Good luck Doug.
There now, I’ll stop rambling.
Noel
Maybe make a spacer with two tabs with holes. Then use the strapping to hold it all together. Won’t have the detent thou. But you could make that part too in the spacer to have the detent. I would make the spacer long enough so you could put a bolt thru the strapping and dust cap to hold it in place. Good luck Doug.
There now, I’ll stop rambling.
Noel
I think the detent housing is still there, Noel. The cap is bolted at the same distance out as the one in my pic. I'm thinking the spring in there is either not compressed like it should be or too long. I'll know more when I take my cap off. Hard to say from here.
That I don't know, Noel. Unless, with it broken, it's not compressing that spring. It's just pushing the cap back. Most likely that is the issue. Apparently his o-rings are good in there or he would be leaking fluid there.
I took that cap off Alice's valve today. After looking at what I have and Doug's pics, I think all is kosher in there. Thinking what broke it is whatever broke the cover. My recommendation is to buy the new cap while it's still available as the parts inside it are not. That will keep dirt/moisture out, especially since this valve resides under a fender. My 2 cents.
With valve in 'float', I got about 2.25" extension. With the valve in 'neutral', compressed spring length is 1.5". The cap acts as a stop for the spring so the valve returns to neutral when you let go of the lever, if not in float. That spring is NLA.
With valve in 'float', I got about 2.25" extension. With the valve in 'neutral', compressed spring length is 1.5". The cap acts as a stop for the spring so the valve returns to neutral when you let go of the lever, if not in float. That spring is NLA.
Thanks for this input, Kenny and Noel!
Did your valve come off a Massey Ferguson that you put on Alice? I thought the tractor was an A/C due to your name for it. I do remember it is basically scratch built though.
According to the lettering on the fender/valve cover, this is opposite what you are saying, Kenny. Lever forward is float.
Lever pushed clear forward I get almost the same measurement you did at just under 2-3/8".
The lever pulled back to the "up" position measures about 1-1/2" and the spring is compressed.
The lever stays in any position I put it in though even though the spring compresses. There haven't been any hydro system leaks yet---knock on wood---LOL! I suppose the shaft is rusted and causing it to stick wherever I move the lever to.
The detent housing is there, Noel. I can't say yet that the ball, spring and allen screw is though!
I might take out the allen head bolt holding on the spring setup so I can slide the detent housing back to turn it enough to see that part. I suppose I could take the RR tire/wheel off and look at it from underneath. Seems like everything I take off of this thing uncovers more problems though. Definitely paranoid---LOL!
Right at 1-7/8" is where the spring retainer starts hitting the inside of the cap. That listing for the cap at Jack's has no picture and the MF1450 is not listed as being compatible. Are the MF 1650 valves the same as the 1450? If it is, Kenny, I do agree that it probably be a good idea to order one.
Since I got sidetracked, I hadn't looked at the engine for a couple days. Those damm puttied holes in the block do seep some oil! The only way to fix it right would be the correct oil pan for this block, but I'm sure that won't fit this tractor. I'm about ready to start parting the darn thing out again!
After draining the oil I have it hanging upside down to try to come up with an idea to seal them up. My first thought is that since a quarter inch plate block mount lays right across those areas was to RTV them when I bolt on the plates. Now I think that some RTV and gasket material might be worth trying. I don't think that will raise the engine enough to cause alignment issues with the drive shaft.
I can't seem to win with this thing!
Ok that's enough whining for now. Don't really have a choice but to press on and try to jump these hurdles.
DAC
Did your valve come off a Massey Ferguson that you put on Alice? I thought the tractor was an A/C due to your name for it. I do remember it is basically scratch built though.
According to the lettering on the fender/valve cover, this is opposite what you are saying, Kenny. Lever forward is float.
Lever pushed clear forward I get almost the same measurement you did at just under 2-3/8".
The lever pulled back to the "up" position measures about 1-1/2" and the spring is compressed.
The lever stays in any position I put it in though even though the spring compresses. There haven't been any hydro system leaks yet---knock on wood---LOL! I suppose the shaft is rusted and causing it to stick wherever I move the lever to.
The detent housing is there, Noel. I can't say yet that the ball, spring and allen screw is though!
I might take out the allen head bolt holding on the spring setup so I can slide the detent housing back to turn it enough to see that part. I suppose I could take the RR tire/wheel off and look at it from underneath. Seems like everything I take off of this thing uncovers more problems though. Definitely paranoid---LOL!
Right at 1-7/8" is where the spring retainer starts hitting the inside of the cap. That listing for the cap at Jack's has no picture and the MF1450 is not listed as being compatible. Are the MF 1650 valves the same as the 1450? If it is, Kenny, I do agree that it probably be a good idea to order one.
Since I got sidetracked, I hadn't looked at the engine for a couple days. Those damm puttied holes in the block do seep some oil! The only way to fix it right would be the correct oil pan for this block, but I'm sure that won't fit this tractor. I'm about ready to start parting the darn thing out again!
After draining the oil I have it hanging upside down to try to come up with an idea to seal them up. My first thought is that since a quarter inch plate block mount lays right across those areas was to RTV them when I bolt on the plates. Now I think that some RTV and gasket material might be worth trying. I don't think that will raise the engine enough to cause alignment issues with the drive shaft.
I can't seem to win with this thing!
Ok that's enough whining for now. Don't really have a choice but to press on and try to jump these hurdles.
DAC
Don’t give up Doug. Your getting close to having it going. Will be a handy tractor once your finished with it.
Hehe, if I talk to or show the wife anything about the tractors, first thing I say to her is, just pretend to be interested, for a few minutes. That normally works. Hehe.
Noel
Are you taking the base off again Doug. ?
And could you get a mirror in there to see if the allen screw is there ?
Hehe, if I talk to or show the wife anything about the tractors, first thing I say to her is, just pretend to be interested, for a few minutes. That normally works. Hehe.
Noel
Are you taking the base off again Doug. ?
And could you get a mirror in there to see if the allen screw is there ?
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I'll try to answer your questions. Yes, Alice has a MF valve just like yours. The movement on my valve handles may be reverse of yours as I have homemade handles. The cap is supposed to be a stop for the spring, compressing it when you move the spool into the valve thus creating pressure to move it back to neutral.
As far as the link for the cap, yes it's the correct one according to the parts listing there. I did google that part # and found it closer to you at a cheaper price:
Murray Simplicity Snapper 7060425YP Spool Cap Replacement
We are your Small Engine Parts Warehouse - for small engines, snow blowers, lawn mowers, trimmers, edger's, many more. We stock a huge selection of parts and accessories for lawn & garden or outside power equipment for top brands like Toro, Briggs&Stratton, Simplicity, Echo and many more, all at...
Spent an hour visiting with Doug on the phone. Think we both understand his situation better now. We'll get this MF going again and working as it should (even though I am no guru on this brand of tractor). Any help you folks out there can give will be appreciated!
Float is down on the Massey's. I have a spare set of valves, let me know if you need any measurements or info Doug.
Snapper bought MF GT's and continued building them using the same parts, thus the Snapper part #. With the new cap, your handle should 'spring' back to neutral (when you let go) no matter which way you move it.
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That's right Kenny, Snapper actually just made the lawn & garden tractors for Massey & just painted & badged them different. In the 90's they were made by Ingersoll. There are very few parts different. Some of the transaxles were different in the 1655-1855 for example. Massey's were Sunstrand, Snapper were Eaton with a side fender mounted filter.
A little cool history from another member...
During the 1970’s Massey come out with the 1000 series tractors, which were made by Snapper. In the early 1990’s, Ingersoll produced Massey garden tractors. In 1993, AGCO Corporation purchased Varity Corporation, which owned the Massey-Ferguson tractor line. After that Simplicity began building the 2000 series Massey-Ferguson garden tractors at Port Washington. Therefore, currently produced Simplicity, Agco, and Massey-Ferguson garden tractors are identical except for paint and decals.
[/QUOTE]
That's right Kenny, Snapper actually just made the lawn & garden tractors for Massey & just painted & badged them different. In the 90's they were made by Ingersoll. There are very few parts different. Some of the transaxles were different in the 1655-1855 for example. Massey's were Sunstrand, Snapper were Eaton with a side fender mounted filter.
A little cool history from another member...
During the 1970’s Massey come out with the 1000 series tractors, which were made by Snapper. In the early 1990’s, Ingersoll produced Massey garden tractors. In 1993, AGCO Corporation purchased Varity Corporation, which owned the Massey-Ferguson tractor line. After that Simplicity began building the 2000 series Massey-Ferguson garden tractors at Port Washington. Therefore, currently produced Simplicity, Agco, and Massey-Ferguson garden tractors are identical except for paint and decals.